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SHIRIN
NESHAT
Woman of Allah © Shirin Neshat
Interview
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John LeKay: I see that your work addresses
political, sociological, psychological and
spiritual dimensions; particularly in relation
to an Islamic woman's point of view and much
more. Have you shown your work recently in
Iran or other regions near that part of the
world and is one of your intentions to
investigate or subvert stereotypes?
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Shirin Neshat: It's been rather
problematic to show my work in Iran
both in respect to the nature of my
work because of its controversial
themes, and lack of appropriate
venues. However, during the
President Khatami's period when
cultural censorship was briefly
relaxed, the Museum of
Contemporary Art of Tehran,
headed by the courageous director,
Mr. Sami Azar, took the risk and
exhibited two of my videos, (2004 &
2005). This was indeed Iranians'
first chance to see my work in
person. Since then of course, with
the new regime, all prospects of
showing work such as mine are lost.
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Of course, it's important
for both my Western and
Iranian audience to
understand that while my
work investigates social and
political issues of Iran, it
remains conceptual, not at
all claiming to be `actual'
or `realistic' about the
subjects. Another important
factor to keep in mind is
that the work is made from
the perspective of an
Iranian living abroad,
therefore it bears an exilic
point of view.
-
My themes always
seem to develop as a
personal inquiry
toward certain
issues that I am
faced with as an
individual; for
example my
resentment and
questions toward
political powers or
events such as the
Islamic revolution
(1979) that has
determined the
course of my life
and so many other
Iranians'.
Consequently this
path naturally has
pulled me toward a
larger cultural
investigation, which
I happen to care
deeply about.
Therefore, to
properly analyze my
work, one must
always consider both
its personal and
social context that
always run in
parallel. Of course
in process I seem to
frame and raise many
questions, which
naturally bring me
to investigate,
confront and at
times deconstruct
all kinds of
stereotypes such as
the notion of
'orientalism'.
-
In regard to
your other
point, my
interest in
the subject
of women is
partially
due to the
fact that as
a woman I
feel closer
and more
sympathetic
toward their
situation
living under
oppressive
societies.
But also,
because I
believe in
Islamic
societies
such as in
Iran, by
studying the
predicament
of the
women, one
could learn
about the
overall
ideological
structure of
the
political
system that
rules the
country.
Guardians
Revolution.© Shirin
Neshat
- JL: Your work is really beautiful, but also has this kind of exotic Sufi mystical undercurrent. Not only through the use of poetry and religious text imposed on many of the people's hands and faces, but also your choice of subject matter. How much of an influence has Islamic religion, or more esoteric sects like Sufism, or poets like Mowlana Jalaluddin Rumi or others, had on your work?
-
SN: I think what you sense in the work is an
inherent aspect of my Iranian background and
upbringing. Although I have lived many years in
the West, it appears that my aesthetic and
sentiments remain effortlessly non-Western. I
don't believe it's a conscious rather an
intuitive tendency to see the world with an eye
that is less rational but more emotional. As an
Iranian, I grew up with literature of great
masters, such as the mystic Rumi,
Hafiz, Khayam, Ferdousi, to name a few.
Iranians relate to poetry philosophically; in a
way, it can easily be said that poetry becomes
an expression of their existential angst, a way
to cope and transcend the reality--the perpetual
political oppression that they seem to endure by
one dictatorship or another. In formulation of
my art, I too seem to be constantly infusing
important specific political themes with a
poetic language that is timeless and universal.
-
JL: Your work brings to
mind Hazrat Inyat Khan and his
philosophy about the "music of
life"; what philosophy do you follow
when making your work?
-
SN: I don't follow
any particular set
of philosophy.
Rather, I think my
art becomes a canvas
to face my own
personal existential
anxieties, and to
raise questions
regarding the world
that I live in.
Often this
philosophical aim
leads to the
creation of specific
characters or
narratives that are
melancholic or
rather mystical.
I've come to realize
lately that all of
my female
protagonists are
somewhat tragic,
either 'mad',
`outcasts,' or a
`sinners.' In
strange ways, none
ever quite `fit' the
society, just like I
remember Dervishes
living on the
streets of Iran,
never seemed to
belong to anywhere.
-
As a young
person, I
was always
drawn to
religion --
`Islam' and
the idea of
a `faith.'
In fact I
prayed daily
even if I
didn't
understand
the meaning
of those
Arabic words
that I
recited
everyday.
For us,
religion
functioned
as a
collective
activity
that offered
emotional
and
psychological
security and
comfort. I
remember as
I arrived in
the USA, and
as my mild
religious
practice
dissipated,
came an
overwhelming
feeling of
`loss' and
`displacement,'
that I have
never
completely
recovered
from.
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JL:There is
also a
solemn sense
loss and
death in
many of your
earlier
works; as
well as
violence -
in the use
of the gun
etc. Would
you say that
this is a
recurring
theme and if
so, why do
you think
this is?
SN: I see everything in the form of
duality — paradoxical -- in the
inevitable cycle of life/death,
good/evil, beauty/violence. One side
never exists without the suggestion
of its opposite. For example in the
“Women of Allah” photographic
series, we are confronted with
threatening images of women
embracing the gun, yet there is
something terribly submissive,
erotic and sensual about the female
bodies and gazes. In the videos,
such as in “Passage” we are faced
with a ritualistic scene of funeral
where a group black outfitted men
were in a journey delivering a
corpse to a group of black veiled
women in the heart of barren desert.
Yet a young beautiful girl dressed
in colorful clothes sits outside of
the circle and watches the funeral
from outside. For me the young girl
and the eventual fire that breaks
out surrounding the funeral are
metaphoric representation of the
notions of renewal, rebirth,
revival, regeneration.
- JL: How do you think your work is perceived in the East by Muslim men?
I Am Its
secret,
1993
- SN: With a lot more suspicion than Muslim women, since generally my work tends to always take side with the women.
-
JL: There
is also this
highly
charged
atmospheric
eroticism
that you
create with
the subtlest
of gestures,
light,
shadow and
in the
hypnotic
eyes of some
of these
beautiful
women in
your
portraits.
The eyes
disclose a
certain
sexual
danger,
which maybe
is a result
of your
investigation
into taboos,
regarding
matters of
concealment
and
exposure.
What are
your
thoughts on
this and do
you think
this could
be a
sublimation
of something
else?
Mahdokht ©
Shirin Neshat
SN: Part of what you are bringing up is
not really how I depict Muslim women
that makes them more sensual and erotic,
rather how Western culture generally
tends to mystify women behind veil. It
seems ironic but true that the more a
female body is covered, the more
desirable it becomes. Therefore much of
the credit goes to the phenomena behind
Islamic culture that by controlling
female sexuality, it ironically
heightens the notions of temptation,
desire and eroticism. In a way then,
indulging into the `forbidden' becomes
the very heart of the pleasure for many.
- In my work, indeed I very consciously put these issues at play and subversively question the power that these women hold through their `tabooed' sexuality, and yet at times they themselves fall victim to it. For example in my recent film “Zarin” a young and beautiful prostitute suffers from anorexia and self-mutilates herself due to social and religious pressure. But in the “Women of Allah” photographic series, we are faced with self-assured and dignified women who seem proud both by the power of their militancy and sexuality.
Shirin
Neshat
Zarin
2005
Production
Still
©
2005
Shirin
Neshat
Photo:
Larry
Barns
- JL: Can you tell me about your creative process in terms of your photography; do you prefer working out of a studio or onsite?
- SN: At the very beginning, with the “Women of Allah” photo series, I shot all the photos in my studio but ever since then, my work has been taking place outside of my studios, within my film productions.
- JL: Is there any other artist or photographer that has had an influence on your work or that has inspired you?
- SN: Not really. I admire many artists and follow their work very closely, but can't say I am influenced by them. I think these days, I find myself more influenced by filmmakers who in their work also incorporate a great deal of visual imagery, such as Andre Tarkovsky, and more contemporary directors such as Kar-Wai Wong.
Shirin Neshat Zarin 2005
Production Still
© 2005 Shirin Neshat
Photo: Larry Barns
- JL: Can you please tell me about the work at your latest exhibition "Zarin" at the Gladstone gallery and what this work means to you and how it differs from your earlier work?
- SN: Stylistically and formally, “Zarin” became truly a challenge, since it took a big leap from my previous work and it became very cinematic and narrative. Most importantly, “Zarin” is a character driven film, an experience that I didn't have prior to it. In the past, for the most part, the characters of my films, whether singular or in a crowd, were treated more on symbolical--sculptural terms, without individual identities. But with “Zarin”, the scenario was deeply psychological. I had to convey to my audience, how this woman suffered from self-image, and social, sexual taboos without the use of any words. Of course, I had the pleasure and luck of working with a superb actress who needed little direction; but certainly, I learnt a great deal in how I might expand my visual vocabulary into a more narrative style of filmmaking.
- JL: What else are you working on?
- SN: I am in the process of making my first feature length film. I have just finished re-adapting a novel into a script, written by an important female author Shahrnush Parsipur, titled “Women Without Men”. This novel is a well-known and controversial book that has been banned in Iran since the 1990's. The story is at once philosophical, political and mystical. This script has been a three year project. I have never written before; all my films were created by storyboards, so I have worked in collaboration with many professional script writers to produce this script.
- The film takes place in 1953, during a CIA Coup in Iran. We are doing a lot of research regarding this period and the political history involved with this Coup. The scale of the film in general is quite massive in comparison to my past work, but making “Zarin” which is an aspect of this feature enabled me to gain the necessary confidence, experience and more importantly, to detect the style of the film. We are shooting the film in Morocco in the city of Casablanca and Marrakesh, so I will have to spend several months there. The shooting hopefully will start sometime in late 2006.
Photos courtesy Gladstone Gallery, New York
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